Meeting 2012 March 16

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  • [14:14] <@[Chair]Drew> *Bangs Gavel*
  • [14:14] <@[Chair]Drew> Welcome to the PCGen BoD Meeting my local date is Mar 16th, 2012 @2:14pm PDT
  • [14:14] <@[Chair]Drew> Our Agenda:
  • [14:14] <@[Chair]Drew> 1) Progress Report of UI
  • [14:15] <@[Chair]Drew> 2) Team Reports
  • [14:15] <@[Chair]Drew> 3) Other Business
  • [14:15] <@[Chair]Drew> James all you *Hands Talking Stick to James*
  • [14:17] <James[Code_SB]> ok, so on the UI front I've added support for kits and notes, and Connor has been working on temporary bonuses and companions
  • [14:17] <James[Code_SB]> There has also been plenty of bug fixing going on
  • [14:17] <James[Code_SB]> So I think we are about ready to do another release in the next few days
  • [14:18] <James[Code_SB]> The discussion on the LST editors on the pcgen list was interesting - we will have to assess what we can do to allow editing for 6.0 I think
  • [14:19] <James[Code_SB]> I don't think there is time for a full editor rewrite but perhaps we could get the framework for the token driven editor in place
  • [14:19] <James[Code_SB]> That's about all - any questions?
  • [14:19] <@[Chair]Drew> Yes
  • [14:20] <@[Chair]Drew> Two Questions
  • [14:20] <@[Chair]Drew> 1) NaturalAttacks - We going to try and fix it before the release?
  • [14:21] <@[Chair]Drew> 2) LST Editor - I think we need to have at least the same functionality as before, so will it be possible to plug in the old version until we can get the new version up and running?
  • [14:22] <James[Code_SB]> 1. To add in support - well that depends on Devon - he's taken the ticket, but I've suggested he may want me to do it. I'm not going to gate the release on it
  • [14:22] <James[Code_SB]> 2. No. I don't feel that the old editor will provide useful functionality to people at this stage
  • [14:23] <James[Code_SB]> All of the list comment was that an editor is an essential function but that they don't use the current editor
  • [14:24] <@[Chair]Drew> Fair enough to both counts. - I forwarded your comment to Devon.
  • [14:24] <karianna> I say we leave the LST Editor for now, it was getting to the stage of doing more harm than good
  • [14:25] <James[Code_SB]> Yes, that was my feeling also
  • [14:26] <[Arch_SB]thpr> agree
  • [14:26] <@[Chair]Drew> I'm fine with that, we'll need to add something to the release notes though, so we don't get flooded with questions about where it went. ;)
  • [14:27] <James[Code_SB]> Yep, I can add that in
  • [14:27] <karianna> Fair enough
  • [14:27] <@[Chair]Drew> Tom, you're up. *Hands talking stick to Tom*
  • [14:27] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Wait
  • [14:27] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Thought we did a release with the new UI already?
  • [14:27] <James[Code_SB]> We have
  • [14:27] <James[Code_SB]> 5.17.11
  • [14:27] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Or is the discussion about the full 6.0 (did I miss a schedule on that at some point)
  • [14:28] <James[Code_SB]> This is just another alpha we are discussing now - 5.17.12
  • [14:28] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ok
  • [14:28] <James[Code_SB]> The editor would be a 6.0 target and then only in a limited form
  • [14:29] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ok, so this is more of a "oops we missed mentioning that in 5.17.11 so we'll put it in 5.17.12 release notes"
  • [14:30] <James[Code_SB]> Pretty much
  • [14:30] <[Arch_SB]thpr> k
  • [14:31] <[Arch_SB]thpr> thanks
  • [14:31] <[Arch_SB]thpr> So onto my report
  • [14:31] <[Arch_SB]thpr> We had a great code/arch team meeting a week ago, mainly about the new UI.
  • [14:31] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Clarified a lot about how it works and gave us some good things to look into in the future once we're more settled in on it
  • [14:32] <[Arch_SB]thpr> So thanks to Connor and James on being in front of the podium for that entire meeting!
  • [14:32] <karianna> +1 it was food reading
  • [14:32] <karianna> Food = good
  • [14:32] <James[Code_SB]> and that's a sentiment I have to agree with
  • [14:33] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (was wondering if you had the late night munchies or something ;)
  • [14:33] <karianna> ;-)
  • [14:33] <[Arch_SB]thpr> We should get a meeting scheduled for May since there were a few more topics we should be covering
  • [14:34] <[Arch_SB]thpr> On the direct arch front, we also had a discussion on abilities a bit ago on the _Dev list (not sure I've been in a meeting since then), so I at least have a method of eliminating cloning on abilities
  • [14:34] <James[Code_SB]> Yes the discussion last week was great
  • [14:35] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Based on initial investigation I was doing last weekend, that may also clean up the casting concern I had in the core, so that would be nice to cover both of those at once
  • [14:36] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Not sure I have more than that at this point - any questions?
  • [14:37] <James[Code_SB]> None here
  • [14:38] <[Arch_SB]thpr> *hands talking stick back to Andrew*
  • [14:38] <@[Chair]Drew> None here, lots of good things though :)
  • [14:38] <@[Chair]Drew> Kar, Anything from our fearless Leader before I cover the remaining team reports?
  • [14:39] <karianna> Nope, I'm very happy
  • [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Okay, let's start with Content Team -
  • [14:41] <@[Chair]Drew> Docs - Eric has been doing a fantastic job of updating our docs. He's asked a question of the code team regarding when to remove deprecated Doc Entries - seems we're still waiting for a response it looks for the latest one he asked about.
  • [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> OS - I'm working on a New Fantasy Based Sheet - Alt. Condensed to implement a few new features. The feedback has been great. The Spells section is a bit more space saving but feature packed. Very proud of it. The front page has gotten a face lift. Needless to say, still a work in progress. Also added a few new features into the base.xml. Finding a few bugs though, and I'll be interfacing with the code team to determine what we need to do & is giving issues in Equipment.
  • [14:44] <[Arch_SB]thpr> *determine wha... is all we got
  • [14:44] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (it got cut off)
  • [14:44] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (meaning we lost everything after "determine wha"
  • [14:44] <@[Chair]Drew> Oh, ok
  • [14:45] <@[Chair]Drew> time stamp?
  • [14:45] <James[Code_SB]> (8:43:30 AM) [Chair]Drew: OS - I'm wor
  • [14:45] <@[Chair]Drew> determine what we need to do & is giving issues in Equipment.
  • [14:45] <@[Chair]Drew> Did you get it that time?
  • [14:45] <James[Code_SB]> yep
  • [14:46] <@[Chair]Drew> DATA -
  • [14:47] <@[Chair]Drew> Cleaning up a few sets as I find them. Working on a few projects in the background. As soon as I get a few items in place I'll be winding my way through the list of Test Items Tom has requested.
  • [14:47] <@[Chair]Drew> That's the brunt of Content - Questions?
  • [14:48] <[Arch_SB]thpr> not from me
  • [14:48] <James[Code_SB]> None here
  • [14:49] <karianna> Nope, just a comment that the test stuff is a great long term thing & I like the new sheet
  • [14:49] <karianna> Karianna the char is a wiz :-)
  • [14:49] <@[Chair]Drew> Thanks
  • [14:49] <@[Chair]Drew> Onto Admin
  • [14:51] <@[Chair]Drew> Web - The only true project on my plate is the Calendar issue. Needless to say, the best solution is the one we have already in place on our server, but due to server issues, it's not working. I'm working with Anestis to resolve this, but RL and other projects keep stealing the focus. I *DO* have a reminder email list set up, and if someone simply on the approved list sends an email, IT will be sent to both the BoD; and PCGen Main (Once I enable the Main).
  • [14:52] <@[Chair]Drew> Anestis would like Feedback on the Wordpress, that is installed, but lack of comments/feedback have caused any further progress to stall.
  • [14:53] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Your Web line got cut off
  • [14:53] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Smaller pieces of text are necessary in IRC
  • [14:53] <@[Chair]Drew> I'm working with Anestis to resolve this, but RL and other projects keep stealing the focus. I *DO* have a reminder email list set up, and if someone simply on the approved list sends an email, IT will be sent to both the BoD; and PCGen Main (Once I enable the Main).
  • [14:54] <[Arch_SB]thpr> ty
  • [14:54] <@[Chair]Drew> yw
  • [14:54] <@[Chair]Drew> Trackers -
  • [14:55] <@[Chair]Drew> Been going through and trying to close the fixed issues as I confirm them fixed. David has been doing an awesome job here as well.
  • [14:55] <@[Chair]Drew> I'm also moving over any "Need Help With" to the jira as these languish without any feedback loop
  • [14:56] <karianna> I was going to ask, Tom, do you have everything transferred from SF that you needed?
  • [14:56] <@[Chair]Drew> I added a note NOT to upload any file there unless directed by a PCGen Team Member otherwise these don't get the attention and feedback they need.
  • [14:57] <[Arch_SB]thpr> @Kar: Probably not
  • [14:57] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'll have to check
  • [14:58] <@[Chair]Drew> On a side Note: I've also been giving each new rev a good work out as evidenced by the new bugs I've been adding. @James - those errors are becoming less frequent... light at the end of the tunnel ;)
  • [14:58] <@[Chair]Drew> Any questions for Admin?
  • [14:58] <karianna> Kk, just thinking about it since you are Planning arch work
  • [14:59] <James[Code_SB]> none here
  • [15:01] <@[Chair]Drew> Okay PR - No reports from them.
  • [15:01] <@[Chair]Drew> Our Facebook is slightly active, we get a few likes on a weekly basis
  • [15:02] <@[Chair]Drew> People do respond whenever we post something they find interesting.
  • [15:02] <@[Chair]Drew> Something PR related that may or may not be appropriate discussion material here
  • [15:02] <karianna> I noted that we no longer get on the enworld newsletter, can Eric chase that up?
  • [15:03] <@[Chair]Drew> The Old CMP sets and the perception it's too hard to update with the existing tools
  • [15:04] <@[Chair]Drew> I've been trying to assist users, but there is a negative perception that we aren't supportive of those users I've been encountering.
  • [15:04] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Is something breaking or ??
  • [15:04] <[Arch_SB]thpr> What specifically is the issue?
  • [15:05] <@[Chair]Drew> Updating sets from the 5.12 or previous version to 5.16 is too difficult. Once they go through the listed steps, they have to still manually fix items.
  • [15:05] <karianna> There are a lot of steps and the scripts etc don't always deal with CMP tags
  • [15:05] <@[Chair]Drew> Thanks Kar, yes.
  • [15:06] <@[Chair]Drew> Some users would rather stay in 5.12 where they work instead of the effort to update.
  • [15:07] <@[Chair]Drew> And going through with users - it doesn't help that the LST code error catching wasn't up to snuff like it is in 5.16 and later... so a lot of uncaught errors suddenly pop up.
  • [15:07] <karianna> To be blunt I'm not convinced its up to us to resolve this, it would be a massive project to support very old data that wasn't even produced by us...
  • [15:07] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Well, that's a data issue
  • [15:08] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I can't solve data issues for CMP data
  • [15:08] <[Arch_SB]thpr> We're not even sure how many different versions of their data there is out there for different releases with different fixes, et al.
  • [15:09] <karianna> Exactly it's a _very_ unfortunate situation for those users, but we aren't CMP.
  • [15:09] <@[Chair]Drew> Agreed, we aren't.
  • [15:09] <karianna> I think Andrew has gone above and beyond as it is :-)
  • [15:10] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Let me be clear, I don't LIKE the situation, I don't LIKE that we didn't have much of the error checking until very late in the 2 year sunset, I don't LIKE that only a few folks probably managed to download the final version they put out...
  • [15:11] <[Arch_SB]thpr> but there comes a point where we have a decision to make whether we take spend our effort to take the project forward or whether we spend time handling and automatically fixing all of the possible permutations of CMPs data.
  • [15:11] <@[Chair]Drew> A suggestion if I may -
  • [15:12] <[Arch_SB]thpr> (which, by the way, we don't have access to)
  • [15:13] <@[Chair]Drew> As one of the complaints is people aren't Perl Savvy, could we set up a method via server to run PrettyLst for homebrewers WITHOUT needing to install perl on their own machines?
  • [15:13] <@[Chair]Drew> Using the latest version of the prettylst in our svn.
  • [15:13] <[Arch_SB]thpr> And that's needed because it does the 5.12 to 5.14 work?
  • [15:13] <@[Chair]Drew> It's a suggestion, but I think would help alleviate the frustration I've been handling.
  • [15:14] <@[Chair]Drew> @Tom - Yes, no automatic converter until 5.14 forward
  • [15:14] <@[Chair]Drew> (And to make Kar happy, a "How many users have used this function" statistics...)
  • [15:16] <@[Chair]Drew> I'll be adding some notes to the WIKI about common issues that weren't caught.
  • [15:16] <@[Chair]Drew> Anyways, that's it for PR. Any questions?
  • [15:16] <@[Chair]Drew> Oh, completely skipped this -
  • [15:16] <@[Chair]Drew> http://www.liferay.com/downloads/liferay-portal/available-releases
  • [15:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> what's that for?
  • [15:17] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Let's stay on one topic at a time
  • [15:17] <@[Chair]Drew> This was a possible solution, I'm going to run it by Anestis. Open Source, and except a higher edition, it appears free... Calendar / Web Portal
  • [15:17] <karianna> Java based portal
  • [15:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> back to the converter. I'm not sure that's a good idea
  • [15:18] <[Arch_SB]thpr> putting it up as a mailing address has a set of risks, as does a web page. Not sure we have the bandwidth on board the team to manage those risks
  • [15:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> Another (albeit weird) option would be to convert the perl to Java bytecode, but that might come with risks of having to debug the converter.
  • [15:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'm not sure any of those are within the bandwidth we have.
  • [15:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> I'm not trying to rain on any parades, but we have to be realistic about the size of team we have and what we can accomplish
  • [15:19] <[Arch_SB]thpr> It's not about doing things that are important, it's about doing the things that are the MOST important.
  • [15:21] <[Arch_SB]thpr> So maybe this needs to go back to a list or something, but I'm uncomfortable with it, if that isn't obvious
  • [15:22] <James[Code_SB]> If someone with the perl skills were to volunteer I'd be happy to provide some assistance, but I don't think there is the capacity within the current team unless we wanted to stop work on somethign major and thus hugely delay 6.0
  • [15:23] <@[Chair]Drew> I agree, the teams are spread thin. Just bringing up a commonly encountered issue and seeing how we want to progress from here.
  • [15:24] <@[Chair]Drew> We can use the FB page and see if we get any perl coders.
  • [15:25] <@[Chair]Drew> Any other business we want to discuss before calling it a morning/day/night?
  • [15:26] <[Arch_SB]thpr> not from me
  • [15:26] <James[Code_SB]> None here
  • [15:26] <karianna> Nope
  • [15:27] <@[Chair]Drew> Thanks for attending all. Meeting Adjourned *Bangs Gavel*